“How are you? It’s been a long time,” I said to Stephen Espinoza Tuesday at Barclays Center in Brooklyn, after Tank Davis and Lamont Roach spoke to media and interacted to hype their March 1 clash in Brooklyn, where Tank has a decent fanbase. “Just like old days,” I said, as the 54-year-old sports attorney turned executive turned…wait, what is he doing, officially, these days?
“Who are you and what do you do? Fill me in a little bit,” I said, smiling, leaving unsaid that I’d been in this position, sticking a phone in front of his mouth, and asking him questions about the state of boxing, a bunch of times.
Espinoza got tapped to run Showtime sports in the fall of 2011, so, cursory math says we’ve gone over some of these same subjects and issues before. I smiled also because I genuinely like speaking to him, as the qualities which have kept him “in the mix” in the sports entertainment/event executive ranks for this long spell are present when conversing. “I am a consultant for PBC, I’m in charge of TV production, live TV production and shoulder programming,” the Texas native said, playing along.
Espinoza Asked If Tank Will Really Retire
“Tank versus Roach,” I broached to Espinoza, who end of 2023 fought hard to keep Showtime sports and boxing alive as corporate conglomerate consolidations and launchings continue to shape the arc of the linear to cable to cord-cut/wireless platform structure. “I think it could be a decent, solid fight,” I continued. “Lamont Roach is a world-class guy. Not a bad choice for opponent. You know, though, us in media, we do like to talk about things that didn’t happen or should have happened, whatever. I think a lot of people would like to have seen this fight being Tank versus Lomachenko. We’re not seeing that.” But before we get into why that didn’t occur, he first took a crack at reacting to Tank Davis saying 2025 will be his last year fighting.
“If you listen closely, he’s hinted at it,” said Espinoza, as things wound down at Barclays. “I’m not trying to walk you back, but I think when you’ve been to the mountaintop, if you’re 30, there are ebbs and flows and sometimes it’s sort of like you can see the finish line and other times you’re energized and you’re like, I’m going to do this for a long time. And I think Tank’s at a point right now where it’s sort of like, ‘Hey, it’s harder and harder to get motivated to get up for it.”
He made sense; Davis is 30, he’s been fighting pro since 2013, as an amateur on the streets and in gyms since he was five. If he seems or is truly weary about “the fight game,” he’s earned that.
“You got little nagging physical things,” the rep for Premier Boxing Champions and Al Haymon continued. “I mean, I felt great at 30, but I’m sure there are little things that are starting to add up. So look, would it surprise me if he lived up to that? No, but it would not surprise me if we’re sitting here in two years and he’s still as active as ever.”
Was Tank vs. Roach Almost Tank vs. Loma?
OK, and circling back to why this Roach is getting the opportunity of his professional lifetime in the form of a chance to go from 130 to heavily shark-y waters at 1-3-5, where “Jaws” Davis is doing business. Did we almost see Tank against Vasiliy Lomachenko for this fight? How close were we to getting Tank vs. Loma?
Espinoza: “It was very close. It was very close and I actually thought that it was going to get done. Why didn’t it get done? Look, Loma decided it wasn’t the right time and what that meant, whether there’s something physically going wrong going on with him or (whatever). Loma is 36. He’s earned that. I don’t think he was “a duck.” I don’t think he’s avoiding Tank in any way. I took it as he wanted to rest a little bit more and not jump back in the ring. He’s had some nagging injuries, so I still think it’s a very makeable fight in the future.”
Possibly after this one, I pressed. “I think so,” Espinoza said. He characterized that as a “rough plan.” Readers of this piece are probably likely that chatter splatters lots of places, and we’ve heard stories of a Tank vs Shakur Stevenson clash, so, it goes without saying but I will say it anyway, long term planning in boxing can be a fool’s errand if enacted without full understanding about the inevitability of change.
That in mind, let’s ponder some possibilities. What about, Tank versus a Ryan Garcia? Espinoza nodded, and added, “I think at some point if the weight can be worked out, Devin Haney, maybe. I think especially at this stage, Tank’s not going to stick around to do anything less than the biggest fights that he can.” That makes sense to me. This is an age where numbers are mattering maybe more than ever. Events are needed, content that can rise above, as a bit more intriguing, a bit more novel, than all the sh*t on Pluto, Tubi, YouTube, Tik Tok, FightsATW, etc.
Once again, I am chatting with Espinoza as shoes are dropping. In 2011, he went bold and signed an “old” but not past prime Floyd Mayweather to a deal which played out as the right call. He had scrapes and beefs with ex business mate Oscar De La Hoya, and hijinks galore during the Mayweather-McGregor mashup and ongoing sparring with Rick Glaser has been a years-long staple now. Espinoza’s longevity makes him a logical one to try and get some alpha on what the year in boxing 2025 will look like.
What Will PBC 2025 Look Like?
“Set the table for 2025,” I said to the NY resident. “You know me, half a cynic but also try to be optimistic. So I’ve been saying about you guys (PBC), I’d like to see you back 2025 with some vigor. Can you whet my appetite a little bit and feed that optimism? I did tell people throughout the year to be patient with 2024, it was going to be a learning experience to a degree. (I was referring largely to the tectonic shift of the Saudis entry into the space.) Don’t think I heard enough of that (I was referring obliquely to the state of PBC as a vessel helmed by a ghost captain, the ultra-reclusive Haymon, in my head.)”
“I don’t think I talked to you enough,” said Espinoza, who offered his take on what PBC 2024 amounted to. “Amazon was going to jump in and be as active as Showtime was in its 37th year? But I sort of feel like the training wheels are off Showtime. Amazon has got their feet wet, they’re well acquainted with it. PBC has got a good rhythm with them and we’ve already seen, we’ve got two pay-per-view in the first quarter,” he said. “I think there’ll be two more non-paper views on Amazon.”
He speaks of the event topped by David Benavidez (29-0; interim WBC 175 champion) against a hard foe in terms of risk reward, David Morrell (11-0). They collide Feb. 1, in Las Vegas, with a strong undercard. “I think there’ll be pretty shortly a couple of non-pay per views also in the first quarter, which is a good solid first quarter.”
Overall, does he agree this sport is in (AGAIN) a major period of transition? I spoke as a US-based fight fan when I told him “we” want people to support what you’re doing and hand you good sums of money to do it. “But that has been a little bit more difficult in the past couple of years than it was five years before.”
The Platforms, They Are A Changin’
“Fair enough,” Espinoza allowed. “HBO got out at the end of 2018, Showtime got out at the end of 2023, between those two, that’s over 200 million in license fees taken out of the market and there hasn’t been anyone reliably to come in. And yes, the Saudis have come in with big checks occasionally, but that’s not regular enough and it’s not developmental. What they’re basically doing is taking developed talent, but they’re not developing young fighters, so it’s a critical period for the sport.”
So, is he feeling optimistic as PBC is looking to 2025, will the people who want this “segment” of the sport to thrive be pleased in 12 months? Am I going to be happier as a fight fan of American fighters, looking forward? “I feel optimistic because of the following,” Espinoza answered. “I think that there’s enough chaos, enough desperation that we could finally come together collectively and right some of the flaws.”
I thought of the Naomi Klein (not Wolf) book Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism. “What’s the doctrine when chaos comes, what comes out of chaos,” I said. Was he saying that the ingredients that we have, the world as a whole in f*cking flux and chaos…and this can result the bettering of the sport?
Come Together His Favorite Beatles Song?
“Look, everybody’s got to come together and actually work together for this sport,” Espinoza continued. “If we don’t, and not to be a doom and gloom, but if we don’t come together, this sport is not going to survive the way we’ve seen it over the last couple of decades. I think out of desperation, people will come together, address some of the flaws in the sport and hopefully come out much stronger. I believe that by the end of 2025 we will be operating in a much better place.”
He had me going there, but then again I was all in with Walz and thought ladies would carry the day on November 5…wtf do I know? Moving forward, I can’t pretend to know what’s coming around the bend in the next 12 months, but lots of it will be interesting. There has been a cultural swing back which could result in a bit of a boom, maybe, for this sport of ours, which sure as hell is still outlaw/black sheep when it comes to attracting sponsoring dollars from corporations.
The proper pest in me came out, and I asked Espinoza to give me a couple name of the guys that we might be hearing about in the next couple months there, as we’re looking into the first half of 2025. Who am I going to want to be look at? “Look, they’re familiar names, but I feel like they’re forgotten,” Espinoza said. “The Charlos. I think the sport is better when the Charlos are active.”
“F*cking Charlos are better when the f*cking Charlos are active,” I blurt-zilla’d.
Espinoza, good lawyer/exec: “They’re big personalities. They’re exciting inside the ring. They’re polarizing, which is a good thing. Yes, Jermell didn’t look great against Canelo. Jermall’s had his challenges, but they’re still young.”
Quick quiz: No cheating looking at BoxRec. How old are the Charlo twins? OK, younger than I thought. The twins turn 35 on May 19.
So, Espinoza might be correct in that their in-ring inactivity could be a plus if one or both truly seeks to hit a proper pinnacle, from the standpoint of winning fights, not the earning side. “They’re going to be back and I think there’s a lot still left in this sport,” Espinoza said. He deftly pivoted. “We just need to get our sh*t together and have it wanting more efficiently than it has in the last few years.”
I said earlier I like to try to be optimistic. But not to the point of not recognizing realities. If “getting our sh*t together” is a pre requisite for the year in boxing 2025 to play out better than 2024, then I say, good f*cking luck to us. “Big f*cking order,” I said to Espinoza, wrapping up, staying in what I think/hope is the right lane for someone doing what I do in a changed world. I won’t pretend to know that is the smart play in that realm.
Lemme put it this way: I think it more likely that prevailing tendencies continue in the pro boxing sphere, that rival leagues, companies and platforms will embrace more collaboration with the goal of offering a “better” product. If I had to guess, what are the odds that Tank Davis defeats Lamont Roach, by KO? Same neighborhood. Optimism keeps the soul aloft, but earned cynicism is needed as a counterweight, no?
Discover more from Fights Around The World
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
